Editor's Note: This interview is part of the third season of Voices of Kansas City, a project created in collaboration with KKFI Community Radio to highlight the experiences of Kansas Citians making an impact on the community. This is an extension of The Star's award-winning "Truth in Black and white" project, published in 2020. Listen to this interview and others on KKFI 90.1 FM, or at KKFI.org.

Parenthood. In most depictions of its early stages, you see the mother carrying the load while pregnant, as the father hangs out in the background, wondering when will be the next time he'll be called upon to pick up whatever the mother is craving.

James Hogue is working to change that notion.

Originally from Detroit, Hogue moved to Kansas City with his wife, Shunquita, in 2020. Around the same time, they were expecting their first child, James Hogue II, and had everything planned out perfectly for an at-home birth. Unfortunately, his wife started having health issues and those plans quickly shifted, as she then had to give birth in a hospital.

Hogue had training he received from the National Black Doulas Association, their personal doula and his own life experiences that made the sudden jump easier. But not everyone knows what to do, so he decided to use his educational background to continue teaching, only outside of the classroom.

In November 2022, James created the nonprofit Fathers Assisting Mothers, dedicated to preparing expectant fathers and non-birthing partners through education and support to become active participants in the childbirth experience.

Joseph Hernandez, service reporter at The Star, wanted to know more about being an active partner in childbirth, since this could be in his future in just a few years, and invited Hogue to the KKFI 90.1 FM Kansas City Community Radio studio to talk about his nonprofit. That interview, with minor editing for space and clarity, is published here in a question and answer format to share Hogue's authentic voice.

Meet James Hogue

The Star: What is your story?

Hogue: My pathway into this work is bookended by two experiences that happened in my life. These two experiences happened roughly 15 years apart. The first experience, when I was roughly 16 years old, living at home, I witnessed my mom and my dad help deliver one of my nieces.

In that moment, my brother's wife was expecting, and she was waiting on the EMS to get there. But it took too long, and my mom jumped into action and really got us going.

The other bookend was five years ago, when my wife and I were giving birth to our son. We had a desire for a completely natural home birth. But we had to go to the hospital. And in that moment, I saw how important it was for me to be informed.

You've been in Kansas City for how long now? Where are you from?

It'll be five years in July. We moved right in the middle of the pandemic. And the experience, in that was a completely wild experience as well. But yeah, it's just right at five years.

I'm born and raised in Detroit and lived there up until I was, like 16. And then my family moved, to Greenville, South Carolina. And so I was there and went to college, lived and work there, and then eventually moved to Kansas City in 2020.

Tell me a little bit more about Fathers Assisting Mothers.

Fathers Assisting Mothers, or FAM, as we like to call it, is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization that's designed specifically to provide childbirth education that's tailored to the expecting father or the non-birthing partner. Our goal is to make sure that each and every father walks away with not only the information and resources, but more importantly, to develop a sense of community with other fathers so that they don't feel as if they're going through this phase or experience of life alone.

And the reason is that so many guys are kind of relegated to the sideline when it comes to childbirth and maternal health. We wanted to create something that centers the father, but doesn't take away the experience that the mother has, but wants to provide some specific training and specific information so that guys can realize they do have a role to play.

In November 2022, James Hogue created the nonprofit Fathers Assisting Mothers, dedicated to preparing expectant fathers and non-birthing partners through education and support to become active participants in the childbirth experience.

Was the inspiration for starting this based on those two experiences you talked about earlier?

The bigger picture was what I experienced when I was younger. But the immediate start was the experience that my wife and I went through. We were planning for a completely natural home birth. We had everything laid out.

We had an amazing childbirth education team. We had an amazing doula. We found our midwife. We were ready for it.

We were at about 35-36 weeks when my wife began to experience complications, and those complications that she experienced were presented as preeclampsia. Her pressure was extremely high. They found out that there was protein in their urine.

Preeclampsia is a condition that comes about during pregnancy where blood pressure in the body can't cope. Because of the preeclampsia, we went to a doctor and they found out she had extremely low amniotic fluid. Both of those things put together and the doctor was like, hey, it's not safe for you to have a home birth, and in fact, we have to induce and have the baby now.

It was a complete shift from what we expected and what we wanted to do to what we were forced to do. I'm just so grateful that we had the team and I had and the education to show up for her. But the reason that we kicked this off is because during that time, I couldn't find any resources that were speaking directly to me.

How long have you been running Fathers Assisting Mothers?

Unofficially, we started doing programming in January 2021. I had several of my friends that were getting ready to have children and I wanted to use my experience to pour into them. We officially started in November 2022, so it's coming up on three years. We're still fairly young, but we've had an amazing impact, and we love the work that we get to do.

What have you heard from people who've signed up for the program?

After our experience. I had several of my friends who were getting ready to have children. They reached out and they began to ask questions. Some of the questions I could answer, but some of the questions I couldn't. And so I began to reach back out to our doula, who was supporting us through our process.

She helped me answer some questions. Then she brought up to me and said why don't you go and get your training and certification as a birth doula as well, so that you have the adequate training, certification and the wherewithal to teach the guys what they need to know.

I tell people I don't show up to anyone's birth. Instead, I use my training to pour into other guys so that they can fully show up, assist and advocate for the mothers in their lives. Throughout our program, we walk them through childbirth education, understanding what you need to know preconception-wise.

If you and your partner are thinking about having a child, here are some things that you should begin thinking about and doing. If you and your partner are already, expecting, here's what it looks like to make sure you all are eating right. Here's what it looks like to learn how to recognize the signs and symptoms of what's happening so that you can be a full, engaged participant.

We teach them how to talk, show up, how to advocate and be there for their families.

What were you doing before?

I am a lifelong educator, did my undergrad in education and I have my master's in educational leadership. My entire career has been either in education or nonprofit development work.

I've always had a joy of walking alongside someone through their various life experiences, but where I stake my claim and lay my hat is in education. I have worked as an elementary and middle school teacher. I was assistant principal for a few years, and I left that to get this nonprofit off the ground and to do this work.

Were you drawn to educating?

My mom just asked me that question. I was trying to think about it, and I just told her I've always wanted to educate.

I am the ninth born out of 12 children, and my parents home-schooled ten out of the 12. They started home schooling in the mid-80s in Detroit. And as a black family in the 80s in Detroit, home schooling was unheard of. But they were really concerned about the lack of quality of education that we were receiving.

We're all stair-stepped, which means that what I learned one year, since I had younger siblings coming after me, I would help teach them that information in the subsequent years. What that did for me was not only did it make me want to learn information because I needed to learn it, but I wanted to learn it even more so that I knew that my younger siblings were going to learn.

With Fathers Assisting Mothers, you're teaching about fatherhood, but from a different perspective. It's been a beautiful thing.

Oftentimes in childbirth education, the people who are teaching it don't look like them, are not fathers themselves or guys themselves. So, it's a bit harder for them to relate or connect with the person that's teaching it.

What we desire to do and what we begin to do with FAM is create and take away some of those barriers relating to the guys that are getting ready to learn it. They can see it from a different perspective because the way it's taught or the way I'm bringing it about makes sense to them.

Guys have always been involved. However, the people who are teaching haven't centered them, had their best interests at heart or seen them for who they are. We're making sure guys understand and see their role and how they can be a sense of safety and voice for their partner throughout the entire time.

James Hogue moved to Kansas City in 2020, in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic. He's from Detroit, where his parents raised him and his 11 siblings.

What was something that surprised you on your path to becoming a birth educator?

One of the things that was most surprising to me was how racially charged the maternal health space has been. And something that drove me to start and get this ball rolling was when the CDC did a study in 2019 that it was a state of emergency for black women birthing in the United States. Black women were nearly three times more likely to die from pregnancy-related issues than their white counterparts.

Because of that, I was like, are black women or black people just that unhealthy? Why is that the case? As I began to peel back the layers through my training and the certification in the work that I learned with the National Black Doulas Association, they showed that all the racial issues that had happened in the country, the redlining in certain communities, the lack of development that happened there led to food deserts and led to a lack of quality of care, or the stress that comes along with being a black person in America, led to some of these outcomes that families were having.

What took it over the top for me was that in one of our courses, we realized that some of the language that was being used in textbooks to teach OBs (obstetrics) and doctors was that black people didn't feel pain the same way that their white counterparts did. So when a black mom was, complaining about being in pain or complaining about these things, the concerns weren't taken that seriously, which led to higher cesarean rates and led to the mortality of the mom in certain cases.

There was a lot that opened my eyes to it, but that was one that really hit me deep in the heart, because that was the experience. There were moments where I had to have literal back and forth with the medical staff because the things that they were bringing up weren't the best option. They weren't listening to us in those moments. Without the education and the power that I had through that education, I wouldn't have known that I had the right to voice those concerns or ask for something different.

How have you seen their confidence grow as they take this course?

One of my favorite quotes is from a guy who went through our very first cohort. He was like, "Yo, James, I'm so grateful for FAM, because now I know I can do more than get Chick-Fil-A and stay out of the way."

That's what many guys think. But now with the information on how to provide comfort measures and how to offer the support and advocacy, they now realize they have a role to play. It's more than just getting food. It's really about offering a sense of safety and security for your partner throughout it.

How does the course work?

We've had several fathers who want one-on-one training, an intimate situation where I am walking through education. We do one-day events about a specific topic for the community at large.

Our main model is our family cohort we run for six to eight weeks, where five to 10 guys walk you through this education together. The cohort model is our favorite model because it not only gives the most in-depth information, but also helps build that community with other fathers who are in that same cohort with you.

This course is designed for everyone. No matter where their knowledge is at. I took the model and the information that I used when I was going through my training and certification and created a curriculum that's tailored for guys. When they walk away from us, they're not just learning how to put on a diaper. They understand what a dilation station is and what those types of things are.

What's your favorite part about teaching this?

My favorite part is just when the light bulb comes on. It's kind of like when I went back to my teaching days when we're teaching young people how to solve a particular equation or how to recognize a concept in history.

When that light bulb comes on, when a guy sees how they can show up and what they can do, that's so beautiful because many guys who go through it come in wanting to help but not knowing how because each guy shows up in a different way.

Some guys just need all the information, like if you give them books, that's perfect for them. Other guys are like "hey, just show me hands-on." Other guys ask what they should be thinking about and what they should be listening for.

What about some of your favorite updates that people have shared from the cohort?

Seeing the family photos. We drop family photos in the group chat fairly often. That's amazing to see because we can gauge the growth of the organization by the growth of the children who came through it.

As of late, what really warms my heart the most is that two of the guys who've gone through our program are now desiring to be trained to become doulas to offer support to other fathers. We're in the process now of developing our trainer program so that these guys are able to come through, get the training and impact many more communities.

James Hogue (center right) pictured after a session with a cohort from Fathers Assisting Mothers, a nonprofit teaching service dedicated to preparing expectant fathers and non-birthing partners through education and support to become active participants in the childbirth experience

You say communities. Is that just in Kansas City or how far out does the program reach?

We started online, so we have families across the country who have gone through our program. A large part here in Kansas City, and a large number in South Carolina where I lived for a while. We had a few fathers out in Houston, a few fathers in Ohio and Florida, so it's all over. But Kansas City is the hub.

With our social media and the work that we've done there, families across the world have interacted and connected with the work that we're doing now.

How can more people learn about this course and where can they sign up?

Our website is thatsmyfam.org and that's where you can sign up for the course. All of our social media links are there as well.

My girlfriend and I have been talking and while we're a few years away, I think it sounds like I know who I'll be reaching out to when that time comes.

It's interesting that you say that. We are currently planning and working through our preconception module. We're creating a complete course for families and couples just like yourself who maybe want to start a family in the next few years. There are certain things that you can begin doing now to make sure that things are ready.

If you're a gardener, for example, you don't just go out and plant seeds haphazardly. You get the soil in the ground ready, and you make sure you have quality seeds to plant in that soil. It's the same way with our bodies. How do we go through and make sure that we are in the best health as possible, or have made the right decisions over the next little bit so that when we do begin to try, we are giving ourselves the best chance to have the outcome that we're looking for.

So what you're telling me is I need to start hitting the gym now?

That's part of it, but it's so much deeper than one thing. For example, having a complete understanding of both you and your partner's family medical history and knowing what those things look like.

Are there any factors that, if we bring them together, could cause this or what does it look like for this? Having complete blood work on both of you to know what vitamins or nutrients are missing in me that I can begin to supplement, so that it happens that way.

It's definitely working out, drinking water, getting right, all those things for sure. But there's so much more to it. And even for guys to begin to unpack if there's any childhood traumas or fatherhood issues that you have in your own life, to really unpack those things on the front end, because you don't know how they'll show up once pregnancy happens or once the baby is born.

We walk through a variety of things in our preconception toolkit to make sure, that families are thinking about the right things so they can give themselves the best chance for the experience that they're looking for.

You guys really do cover all the bases

We try. Just coming from an educational background, if I am getting ready to teach a child how to work through algebraic expressions, the prerequisite for me is for them to understand their multiplication facts or understand how numbers work in the first place. If I'm walking through a concept in history, they will need to know about things that happened before that to give them a better understanding of that.

You know, it's not perfect, but we are consistently growing and being reflective of what we've done to make sure that we have given the best experience possible.

Our deal is that this doesn't decide for anyone. We just offer information and options. We make sure you fully understand all your options that are available to you so that you can make an informed decision. That's what we're all about

If you don't know that there are options, you don't really have a choice. But when you know that there are options and you know what each option entails and what are the benefits and risk for each of the option, then you can make an informed decision with you and your partner on what step you want to make.

We strive to make sure each person who comes through has a wealth of knowledge to make an informed decision for them and their family.

James Hogue is a lifelong educator, earning a bachelor's degree in education and a master's in educational leadership. His career has been either in education or nonprofit development work, including Fathers Assisting Mothers, dedicated to preparing expectant fathers and non-birthing partners through education and support to become active participants in the childbirth experience.

Anything else I'm missing or that you want the people to know about your course?

I like to end with this story here. A lot of people often ask why it's important to center or bring awareness to fathers or the non-birthing partners in this space. We have an entire organization designed for that. A lot of people are trying to reduce and stop the maternal health crisis that is happening in the United States.

I mentioned the state of emergency, but looking at any other industrialized country in the world, the United States is dead last when it comes to the quality of maternal health.

Here's what I tell people. When I was teaching young people how to work through algebraic expressions, there was one student who knew his multiplication facts, knew how to divide, knew numbers, knew integers, knew all those things. But when it came to algebraic expression, he'd struggle, and the reason why is, what he didn't realize was that what you did on one side of the equation, you have to do on the other.

I feel like the reason why we haven't solved the maternal health crisis issue in the United States is because so much emphasis has been on one side of the equation, but not on the side of the father or the non-birthing partner. Until we put that same energy on that other side, we won't be able to solve that equation.

It takes two to make a thing go, right?

Come on now.